New Delhi: Indian Army Chief Gen V P Malik has said that with the kind of proxy war that Pakistan was indulging in today, the chances of war were much more than they were ten or even five years ago.

In an interview to Asia Defense News International (ADNI), the army chief, who retires on September 30, said Pakistan, was fully exploiting India's internal dissensions and weaknesses like ethnicity and caste and communal problems.

''I would say that with the kind of proxy war that is going on today, the chances of war are much more than they were ten years ago or even five years ago. I think, by and large the nuclear factor stands neutralized today on both sides. Of course in their case the button is only with one man, in our case the situation is quite different but our policies are very clear - we will do it only when they do it. In their case I think they will not be so stupid ...they will do it only when they are really hurt,'' Gen Malik said.

There was an imperative need for a consensus on national security, he added. The army chief said there were three areas that needed to be tackled. Firstly, the problems of the people must be taken care of so that alienation does not set in. Next, fight militancy along the Line of Control and internally through better intelligence gathering and better coordination. Lastly, Indian foreign policy must send a clear message to Pakistan that it cannot keep India bleeding and the international community must be made to realize that this 'terrorist state'' business is not doing any good to the world. Underscoring that the overuse of the Army in internal security duties must stop he pointed out that it has come to a point that people are talking about bringing in the Army to deal with Veerappan. Maintenance of law and order is the primary responsibility of the State Governments and it is the responsibility of the police and the intelligence agencies. ''The CRPF and the BSF, need to be revamped. They need better equipment, they need better training, they need better leadership at the junior level and senior level. This tendency to call the Army every time for internal security purposes will be extremely damaging. ''The Rashtriya Rifles was set up for low intensity conflicts, to deal with the proxy war etc. Now people are talking of handing it over to the Ministry of Home Affairs. The Rashtriya Rifles is 100 per cent Armymen. We send our boys to the Rashtriya Rifles for two years and then they come back. If they are placed under the command of the police, their operational efficiency and Army ethos will be adversely affected,'' Gen Malik said. He applauded the dialogue with the Hizbul Mujahideen and said that he had told the Government that ‘‘you have no alternative. You have to speak to them because if the people come to know that we are not wanting to talk to these people then the whole of Jammu and Kashmir population would be alienated.... I think that initially Pakistan felt that we may not accept it, then they got cold feet, and then they went out of their way to stop it. ''Let me tell you one thing, these are things you need to be very clear about. Kashmir is not an average Pakistan agenda. Kashmir is basically a Pakistan military agenda. The military in Pakistan, particularly the Army cannot give up the rationale for the status that they have acquired, the position that they have entered both politically and economically.'' ''The ISI is part and parcel of the Pakistan Army. That machine is controlled and commanded by it. Today you are giving them more credit not because they are more efficient but because of our own problems, weaknesses. They are able to exploit our weaknesses,'' Gen Malik said.

He said the recent upsurge in violence in Jammu and Kashmir was a temporary thing. But one thing, which I am sure, would have gone home to the people of Jammu and Kashmir is that the Government of India 'unka dil saaf hai' (their heart is clean), they are prepared to talk. I would say that we have been able to show to them our desire to bring about peace and tranquility. So that is a plus point.''

''It will also be clear to the population of Jammu and Kashmir that all these people are stooges of the other side, of Pakistan. They are more concerned about including Pakistan in the talks. They want 'Aazadi' and if that were so there is no reason for them to say include Pakistan in the talks. So that is quite evident to everybody in Kashmir,'' Gen Malik said.

On infiltration he said it was not possible to stop it completely. Regarding the Home Ministry proposal to put up a barbed wire from Pathankot onwards along with other gadgetry like radars, sensors, night vision devices, he said it will be able to check infiltration to a greater extent but will not be able to eliminate it altogether.

Referring to demands for a restructuring of the Defense Ministry, he said that for 53 years the Ministry consisted only of civilian officials. Whatever I suggest has to be processed by them. I am responsible to the man on the ground. If he doesn't have the weapons he tells me: ''Sir, what is this you are asking me to do''. Now when I ask the same thing from the MOD he doesn't have the same sense of accountability or urgency.

''In the earlier days there used to be a single file system. 'Jo mera remark hota tha ya kisi ka bhi' (any one's remarks) it would fly up to the Minister. Now in most cases you have a double file system. Our remarks are kept in one file and their own remarks are kept in another file and I don't get to know, the Army HQ or the Service HQ do not know, what is the rationale? Therefore there is no alternative today in India than integration of the Ministry of Defense and the Service HQ for better responses, better understanding and for cost-effectiveness,'' Gen Malik said.

On the question of appointment of an Appellate Tribunal to handle cases of disgruntlement over promotions in the armed forces the Chiefs of Army Staff indicated that there was a difference of opinion over whether the findings of the Tribunal will go directly to the Supreme Court or be referred to the High Court.

UNI