Bangalore: Veerappan, the most wanted bandit has struck again. He has abducted Nagappa, former minister of Karnataka after keeping a low profie for about 18 months. The bandit, who began his career as a small time poacher a couple of decades ago, has established himself as one of the most notorious criminal today.

In order to get more insight into the modus operandi of Veerappan, Indiainfo.com spoke to former inspector general of Karnataka C Dinakar and elicited his views. Excerpts from an exclusive interview:

What are your comments on the recent kidnapping of Nagappa by Veerappan?

Veerappan had kidnapped popular cine actor Dr Rajkumar and both Karnataka and Tamil Nadu governments had sent emissaries to negotiate with him. After Rajkumar's release the governments failed to fulfil some promises made to Veerappan. So Veerappan has kidnapped former minister of the Janata Dal government Nagappa.

What are your comments on the role of the granite lobby in Nagappa's abduction?

Not granite lobby actually. It might be one of the causes because Nagappa was instrumental in getting quarrying in Kollegal taluk banned. Some quarry owners who pay 'mamool' (monthly tips) to Veerappan were not happy. Veerappan wanted to abduct somebody and he abducted Nagappa because he (Veerappan) had some enmity towards him.

Was there any mistake on the part of Karnataka government?

When late J H Patel was the Chief Minister, the amnesty document was signed. Somehow the conditions recorded in that document were not complied by the governments.

Do you think amnesty should probably have been given?

No, No, I don't think any person who has committed crime should go unpunished.

Do you think Veerappan abducted Nagappa because he had run out of money and material?

That question does not arise because now he has got a lot of money.

Does this have anything to do with Jayalalitha's statement of huge ransom being paid for Dr Rajkumar's release?

I don't want to comment on that.

Apart from intelligence failures what are the other major reasons?

Firstly, the terrain in which he operates, it is very difficult for the police to move. He operates in 18,000 square kilometres of dense forest. Immediately after monsoon you cannot see anything beyond 30 metres. Even otherwise visibility is very bad. Secondly, it is a hilly area. He will be on the higher areas and the police will be on the lower areas, so he can see the police movements easily. Thirdly, in 90 per cent of the area, vehicles cannot move so the police has to move on foot.

Are the officers posted to nab Veerappan efficient enough?

R P Sharma, who cannot walk properly on the paved road, can he walk on jungle terrain? Have you seen him, He is a huge fellow, he has to roll down, he cannot walk. That shows the intention of the government. If they don't want proper action to be taken, they will post an officer like R P Sharma. Sharma has a history of corruption, negligence and lackadaisical activities.

Are there any serious differences between Karnataka and Tamil Nadu?

As I have already said, it depends on who the Chief Minister (CM) is. Some CMs are in favour of action and some are not. For example Jayalalitha is keen on action.

Now even S M Krishna seems to be keen on action, do you think there will be an early end to this menace?

You see, actions have to be consistent. There are some officers who are very efficient, now all those officers have been transferred, some useless officers are posted. So again to re-assemble an efficient team it takes time. So the performance will suffer.

What exactly went wrong after Walter Dawaram claimed to have reduced the strength of Veerappan's men from 150 to literally to four or five?

Walter Dawaram bought down the strength from 150 to around 15. Later the government was not consistent in its approach to nab Veerappan. It acted in fits and starts depending upon who the Chief Minister was!

Don't we have an official fixed statute or policy to act against these bandits immaterial of who the CM is?

The statute is the IPC, and Code of Criminal Procedure. According to which any person who has committed crime should be arrested, a case has to be registered against him, he should be the subject matter of investigation, and court trial. Ultimately the court has to punish him.

But cases have not been properly registered they have not been investigated and Veerappan has never been arrested except once, even that was not an official arrest as he was taken into custody and he escaped. As regards the policy, a policy is what the Chief Minister decides.

Why haven't any of the govts ever thought of giving charge to an efficient team of officers to nab Veerappan?

You see, I was DIG forest for about two year in 1979-80. I was young, I have walked on foot in all those areas, I know the terrain very well. I knew a lot about Veerappan also. So when this problem became acute in 92/ 93, I volunteered to head the special task force (STF) when Bangarappa was the CM. My offer was not accepted so they did not want to post me, that was the time Harikrishna (the then SP) was killed.

Was there any effective/foolproof plan or strategy to nab Veerappan?

Immediately after Dr Rajlkumar was abducted, we (Karnataka and Tamil Nadu) co-ordinated and formulated an action plan, we gave it to the Central government. The Central government approved it and sent the Border Security Force (BSF) to assist us in the operation.

We started the action. On February2, 2001, the STF had a close encounter with Veerappan at a Kerala border because he was feeling the heat in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu borders. In the encounter he was injured. This was the first time Veerappan was injured. He had around four to five men with him. They ran away, leaving everything they had.

Veerappan left Rs 3 lakh in cash, all crispy brand new Rs 500 denomination notes. How will a person, who is in the jungle, get new currency notes! We seized all this but the Tamil Nadu DGP said we have seized nothing. Then the whole thing was suppressed by the governments.

With lot of inputs on Veerappan and his movements do you want to offer your services if invited by the state governments?

I have served in the police department for 38 years. I have made a conscious decision to start legal practice, so I don't want to go back the department again.

Has Veerappan got any particular hatred towards Karnataka as most people killed by him belong to the Karnataka service?

No, he doesn't want to kill Tamil people because he is a Tamilian. He wants to maintain a clean record as far as killings are concerned because he will always tell the people he has not killed any Tamilian, because he survives on the support of the Tamil people.

It is also unfortunate when a daring forest official Srinivas was called by Veerappan to come near a temple so that he would surrender, but he was beheaded?

No that it is a different story, you read my book, you will know the reality.

You are writing a book too?

Yes, yes, I have already written it. It will be shortly available.

Leaving aside Tamil Nadu, at least in Karnataka there must have been an honest effort to curb this menace?

That is because of Chief Ministers. There have been change of Chief Ministers. For example Veeerendra Patil and Veerappa Moily were keen on nabbing Veerappan, some other Chief Ministers were not keen. So it all depends on them.

Why the indifference by the governments?

In fact, they did not want to investigate the seized currency notes issue because the bank would be known.

Is Veerappan asking for the release of Siva Subramaniam and Nedumaran?

He is pretty sore that persons close to him are arrested. He is angry because his associates have been arrested and jailed. Some of the promises the governments made were not fulfilled. So this time it is an angry Veerappan who has struck.

So you think this time it will be difficult for the governments?

During these kind of crisis the first stage is negotiations. So one has to negotiate and plan a strategy. The second stage is striking the hideout where Veerappan is hiding and rescue the hostages. But in the first stage itself there is nobody to negotiate.

Now Gopal, Nedumaran or advocates of Mysore have agreed to negotiate…

No, Gopal has not agreed to negotiate. How can Nedumaran go? A person booked under POTA, cannot be released from the jail. Who are these lawyers, anybody can go is it? Can somebody who is in the Taj Hotel or Windsor Manor go? A man who is accepted by Veerappan only can go as an emissary.

Veerappan is known not to kill his hostages?

No, No, that is a myth he has killed his hostages.

How long could this (Nagappa abduction) go on?

As long as Nagappa is alive.